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Beginner Needs Help. :(
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Author:  wierdOne [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:55 am ]
Post subject: 
I've purchased and read through the Benedetto book on making an
archtop... and am about to embark on the long journey of creating an
archtop (my first instrument).... First step (as I won't get around to
actually building the instrument for about 6 months) is to acquire wood
and allow it proper time to acclimate to my room.

First off..... Should I buy Kiln dried wood?... I don't really want to wait
5-20 years for the wood to dry out...

secondly... where do I buy instrument grade wood?

thirdly... Alot of these places online offer planing and jointing.... um...
what exactly are they offering?

fourthly... because I can't actually pick up the wood and "tap tune" it...
what questions should I be asking about the wood?

I'm actually looking to build a few all Mahogany or Korina archtops... 1,
because I love the wood.... and 2.. because I imagine it to be a little
cheaper to work with than flame maple...


After wood selection...... What hand tools will I need to invest in? I'm the
kind of guy that likes to do things the hard way at first (to learn the
techniques)... then invest in powertools to make things easier... Are there
any power tools that are indispensable?

I'm basically starting out with nothing... but ideas and the prospect of
free time in about 5-6 months.... basically imagine if you had an empty
12 X 14 room (old master bedroom) with an 8 X 4 room attached (old
master bathroom).... and dreams of making an archtop guitar... what
would you do? Benches? clamps? etc..

Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Wow arc top for first is a big project. Do you have wood carving experience?

Ntt being an arc top builder, but rather a flat top builder, this is an educated guess. You want wood in 8% to 11% moisture content. Kiln dried or air dried will work but the moisture content is the key
Author:  old man [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Get your wood from one of our OLF sponsors listed at the top of the page. Their wood will be properly seasoned.

Ron
Author:  wierdOne [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:12 am ]
Post subject: 
I know the archtop is the big daddy (in terms of time and effort wise to
make).... but... well... That's what I love.. might as well dive right in.. eh?

I do have some experience in carving... I'm about to graduate college (after 8
years.... arrgghh..) with a degree in studio art.... I've had to chip away at
plaster, stone, wood, and all sorts of other materials....   BUT... I've never
had to create a 1/4 inch thick plane that has to be flexible enough to
vibrate, but withstand 160 lbs of pressure... this is the part that i'm not sure
of........

I'm a gigging jazz musician that is tired of looking at the 5-10,000.00 price
tags of the "good" archtops.... And... well.. I figure... instead of buying
another guitar... I might as well build it... to my specs....
Author:  Brock Poling [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:21 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=wierdOne] I know the archtop is the big daddy (in terms of time and effort wise to
make).... but... well... That's what I love.. might as well dive right in.. eh?

I do have some experience in carving... I'm about to graduate college (after 8
years.... arrgghh..) with a degree in studio art.... I've had to chip away at
plaster, stone, wood, and all sorts of other materials....   BUT... I've never
had to create a 1/4 inch thick plane that has to be flexible enough to
vibrate, but withstand 160 lbs of pressure... this is the part that i'm not sure
of........

I'm a gigging jazz musician that is tired of looking at the 5-10,000.00 price
tags of the "good" archtops.... And... well.. I figure... instead of buying
another guitar... I might as well build it... to my specs.... [/QUOTE]

Just take it in baby steps. If you are like the rest of us and this is just your first (aka... not your ONLY) build then I would opt for a pressed back and a pre-carved top.

There is quite a bit to getting a guitar built.... there is nothing wrong with taking it in stages.


Author:  wierdOne [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:32 am ]
Post subject: 
I didn't mean to imply that this would be my last instrument... I understand
that my first few instruments are going to be learning experiences... well..
they all will be..... and I'm completely ready for the experience... I'd rather
not deal with anything pre manufactured... The more I work with the
materials... the quicker I'll understand their (and my) limitations... I learn by
building things hands on.... In all honesty, I'm expecting the first guitar to
take me anywhere from 6 months to a year to build.... but if I tackle the
entire project without any pre-fabbed materials... well... I'll be that much
closer at the end of the first guitar to having the knowledge required in
building an instrument that's a keeper...
wierdOne38960.6069791667
Author:  Don Williams [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:32 am ]
Post subject: 
If my memory is good (which it's not) I think someone here...maybe Steve from Colonial, had some cnc'd archtop plates for sale at one time. Perhaps one of our vendors has something that can help WeirdOne out...
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:36 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=wierdOne]
I'm a gigging jazz musician that is tired of looking at the 5-10,000.00 price
tags of the "good" archtops.... And... well.. I figure... instead of buying
another guitar... I might as well build it... to my specs.... [/QUOTE]

Welcome to the forum, O WierdOne!

Your last statement has been the downfall of many a beginning luthier. Some have quit, and (possibly worse?) some have gotten hooked. So, forewarned is forearmed, and all.

I build classicals, and I figure it cost me over $3k to build my first guitar -- if I would have quit there. A good hunk of it was money I spent on a couple weeks of private instruction with a well-seasoned professional luthier. But I didn't quit there, which allows me to amortize costs, spreading them out over future builds.

I've been thinking about this recently. I've continued to acquire tools of the trade, as it were, which have added to the total amount I've spent on this craft. Now, I'm working on completing my 16th through 20th guitar builds, and I figure if I were to stop at that point, I'd actually be in the black, albeit just barely.

I don't mean to sound discouraging, don't misunderstand. It's just that building a guitar to save money is usually not the best reason to take up the craft. Chances are, however, even if you end up spending more than you originally planned, and provided that you follow good building practices, the guitar you end up with will probably play and sound better than you had hoped. And then, chances are, you'll be hooked. WAS and TAS will replace GAS.

Best,

Michael
Author:  wierdOne [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Well... Let's put it this way.... I am ready to fork over 7,000.00 to have
someone else build me a guitar to my specs.... BUT... He lives 9 states
away.... and there is nobody in my area that I'd trust to work on my
guitars... so if there were a problem, I'd have to have him fix it..... I've
been drawing guitars for years... i love the shape of them... the physics...
i love how they feel in your hands... i love everything about them....
honestly.. this is the natural progression of things...

I love guitars.. I purchased an unfinished warmoth tele body about a year
ago.... sanded it, stained it.. and by the time it was finished...... well... I
fell in love with working with wood... I'm a multimedia tech by day... I
was in the navy's nnptc before I was discharged for a medical condition...
I'm not afraid of working with wood... I love using my hands... Have you
ever carved stone? that's work... time consuming work... wood... well..
wood should be like butter to me...
Author:  wierdOne [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:16 am ]
Post subject: 
I've had GAS for years... I even had WAS for a while.... I got some nice wood
for a luthier friend of mine to make me a guitar... I'm beginning to have
TAS...

The RITZ..... well... I'm hoping to experience that soon... ;)

I'm excited... I won't be able to start on the actual process for a while... but
I'll be doing a ton of question asking... before construction and during....
Author:  JBreault [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:30 am ]
Post subject: 
I think Ken McKay sells some laminated archtop plates. He isn't a sponsor, but is an active member of the forum. I think that would be a good way to learn how to build archtops, as there still are a lot of other complicated things to learn. Good luck and welcome to the best forum on the 'net.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Weirdone

what a moniker

To follow up on what Michael McBroom said and to expound the truth a bit, not to discourage you but instead to enlighten you.

If you have never built a fretboard, in your case set a bridge to proper intonation. inlaid purfling, bent sides, planed a top, carved and fitted a neck, or any of the necessary tasks required to build a guitar before, don't expect you first attempt to be a $7k instrument. There is so much that goes into the sound and structure of a guitar tat it is not likely a first attempt will be completely satisfactory in your eyes. during glue-up knowing how the wood will react means the difference between a tight joint and a messy joint.

I do not want at all to discourage you . I thing this craft is the greatest thing since bread pudding, but I do not think you will find one of us that will say that we were really satisfied with our first effort. In particularly regards to tonal quality.

If the real reason you want to build these guitars is to do it the way you want it done and expect to render a tonally superior instrument from your first attempt then I would commission one.

However if you are willing to build 1-10 guitars before you are moderately satisfied with the instrument then welcome to the greatest craft in the universe.

Read every thing you can get your hands on. Read it over and over. The most important task you have between now and the time you start your first build, is to familurize your self to the mistakes you are going to make and how to deal with them. This my friend is the impossible task of a first build.MichaelP38960.6494444444
Author:  A Peebels [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Stage 1 Thinking about building guitars.

Stage 2 Reading about building guitars

Stage 3 Building bad guitars. Some people skip this one.

Stage 4 Building really good guitars.

Sounds to me like it's time to make some sawdust. By the way I didn't skip phase 3, but it's really neat when you realize that you've made it to stage 4.

Have fun     Al
Author:  Don Williams [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Hey WeirdOne aka William/Bill,

I like your website...very slick.
Author:  Brad Goodman [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:24 am ]
Post subject: 
I personally find building archtops no "harder" than flattops-just different.
Each type of instrument has it's own set of difficulties.
The main problems I had when I started making archtops (as well as flattops) was controlling the neck angle.
I would shoot for an inch bridge height,if you go too low your in trouble-a little higher won't kill you.
I do sell "alternative" archtop woods ie: mahogany and walnut,as well as curly hard maple for necks-one piece and laminated.
Good luck,
Brad
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Welcome to the OLF William!

Some tools are more important than others and i would suggest an edge sander right away if you don't have one.

For your data, may i suggest an EXCEL spreadsheet to save your bits of information and not repeat the mistakes like i did.

Anthony Zhlatic is another fine Archtop builder here and a fine gentleman!

Have fun!

Serge
Author:  CarltonM [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wierd William,

Welcome to the Forum!

It's obligatory for the guys here to warn new folks about the potential pitfalls, but it looks to me like you've done some serious thinking about this, and don't have unreasonable expectations. You know already that it's going to be difficult to start building from scratch, and I like your "let's get on with it anyway" attitude. Good luck on your journey, and remember where to go when you hit a "wall"--here, of course!
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